Could you start by talking through your career trajectory?
I’m not originally from the UK and I started working in the Federal Ministry of Finance back home. From there, I went to Kearney. As most people do with big consulting firms, I worked as an analyst for a couple of years and then came to do an MBA in London. During my second year, I started thinking maybe it would be time to explore other options and move on from management consulting, otherwise I wouldn’t do it, ever. So, I decided to take the plunge and work in social impact, which was one of the areas I really wanted to try out. An opportunity to work in social impact consulting came up and I took it.
As time progressed, it stopped being the right fit for me and I for them. Before I knew it I was looking for employment during the covid-19 pandemic, a less than ideal situation to be looking for a new role. Finally, as you know better than me I’m now with Discover Education.
Could you talk about how you came across the Discovery Education role?
I think I originally saw another role for Discovery Education on your website that was published around June. I remember reading about it, and reading about Discovery Education as a company and finding it really interesting, but the role wasn’t exactly a perfect fit for what I wanted so I didn’t apply. I regularly kept checking for updates, and eventually my current role came up and it was a perfect fit for what I wanted to do.
When it comes to your current role and the whole application process, how did you find that during the pandemic? Do you think that being freelance means you are less affected?
To be fully honest, I was only recruiting for permanent roles but I found this opportunity very exciting and decided to move ahead with my application. I did hesitate when I saw this position was initially for a six-month contract because in the pandemic things are difficult, everything’s very uncertain. I wasn’t sure that if I had an offer from Discovery Education and another company, I would go for the permanent one because of the longer-term security it brings, even though the Discovery Education role was the one I liked the most and was my top choice. As things progressed, I found myself really enjoying my interviews with Discovery and realized that my initial concerns didn’t really matter. In addition, I figured starting on a freelance basis would allow me to explore the role and really decide whether it was one that I liked, which I must say is turning out to be true.
How did you find the remote onboarding process?
I thought it was going to be more difficult, but at Discovery everyone made it really natural and smooth. I don’t know if it’s because we’re constantly working with people based all over the world, or just because when I joined, they’d had a few months where they’d already been working remotely – this has just become like the new normal. Of course, I look forward to meeting everyone in person and the face-to-face can’t be replaced, but it hasn’t been as difficult as I would have expected it to be.
Do you have any tips for other candidates who are currently either considering freelance, or even a move in general, during the pandemic?
For freelance, if the role is attractive, go for it. Either because it will turn into something permanent, or it will be a bridge to something else. I think from my experience, sometimes we make choices because they’re less risky in a sense – the role is long-term, the salary is higher, the company has a very strong reputation… But if the role is not the right fit, it becomes exhausting and it affects your performance. If it’s freelance, and it’s a role you really feel interested to try, then definitely go for it.
During the pandemic we as candidates need to understand what companies are going through too. It’s still very uncertain times and they might not be able to commit long-term to anyone because they don’t really know what the future holds. So candidates also need to be a bit more flexible. The fact that we show that flexibility is something the hiring companies can relate to.
Do you have any general career advice that has been really helpful to you / worth sharing with other job seekers?
Networking is very important, especially during this pandemic where there is one role and over a thousand applicants. Whenever you have the opportunity to meet someone in the company, even if they’re not directly related to the role, say yes to those conversations – at the end of the day, they might open doors or worst case end up being a really interesting conversation.
Sometimes you also just need to take a break and recalibrate. Application processes can be very long and consuming, so it is ok to pause and say “I don’t want to think about my next job opportunity just yet. I want to think about my long-term career and how I’m going to get there.” This might be something like writing down the three different approaches that you can take to make your career what you want it to be. It can be scary to do this because you are probably in a place where you need a job asap and don’t have time to start thinking about your career from scratch. But it’s important because it will help you better focus your recruiting efforts and be more selective, as opposed to applying to anything and everything that fits your profile. This will also help you be better during your interviews, to convincingly tell your story, what you’ve achieved so far, and why the role you are interviewing for fits as your next logical step in your long-term career plan.
Movemeon supports organisations to hire all over the world
I think mine is the story of a lot of consultants, which is that you start in consulting not entirely sure what it is you want to do long term. For me, consulting was an excellent professional experience, and I loved every second. I worked on good projects alongside great people. If you’re naturally inquisitive, then any industry or function is interesting provided you put in the time and effort. It’s a good way to get exposure to different businesses in a short timeframe.
Ultimately I really enjoyed working as part of a small team, made up of smart, hard-working people who also looked out for each other. And the skills of understanding a problem, developing a framework to help solve it, and then executing against that by working with others to deliver lasting impact, not just a PowerPoint, are extremely transferrable.
Why did you decide to leave BCG?
When I started in consulting, as is the case for most associates, I was young and highly mobile, i.e. excited to hop on a plane at short notice! But as you get older you develop relationships, friendships, and attachments that mean your priorities change and your enthusiasm for travel isn’t the same. In my case, I wanted to be present to put my kids to bed each night. Of course, consulting has come a long way, and there are some great initiatives in my place to address this challenge, but I think it’s common for consultants to reach a stage where your professional life and your personal life aren’t quite as compatible as you’d want them to be.
When I was thinking about leaving consulting I had two main avenues – one was corporate strategy, which made a lot of sense because these were the clients I’d been working with – and the other was the startup/VC world which was less familiar given my experience at BCG.
What I ended up doing was thinking about the elements of consulting that I loved, and that was the small team, the fast pace, and the mindset around delivering impact. Upon reflection, the things that frustrated me during my time as a consultant were related to the nature of working in larger organisations, such as needing to get buy-in from multiple stakeholders at each stage of the process, as well as having lots of meetings which I felt took time away from doing the work.
Answering the question first of what type of professional environment I would most likely find myself happy in, was what then led me toward the startup direction.
So what did you do when you left BCG?
I initially started working as an independent consultant which allowed me to try a number of different projects, one of which was working with a FinTech startup where I met my Osu co-founders. There’s definitely an element of luck in my transition from consultant to founder, but the great thing about the freelance path is that you get to work with smaller businesses than you would in traditional consulting. Along the way, you might find a business you want to be part of, people who you want to build something new with, or that the freelancer life is something you love and want to do longer term.
“I used freelancing as a means to find and develop ideas and to find people that I would want to build something with.”
I used freelancing as a means to work with smaller businesses, develop some ideas, and find people that I would want to build something with. I had the mindset that this wasn’t going to be the next 6-7 years, but more like the next 12-18 months. I also used it as a time to transition from husband to father and I was able to be present during those early months, which is something that was really important to me.
What was your exit strategy from consulting?
I didn’t have a specific strategy as such. But I’d say I quickly developed a fairly strong idea of what I thought I wanted to do as my ‘plan A’.
I also had two very frank conversations which really helped shape the next step of my career. One was with a partner at BCG who pointed out that if I wanted to keep progressing at BCG, then I needed to be fully committed, which ultimately I decided I wasn’t. And the other conversation was with an SVP at a large corporate from whom I’d received an offer and was considering moving to, from BCG. Their openness and honesty about the culture of their workplace really surprised me but ultimately led me to turn down the offer and helped me decide that going down the corporate pathway wasn’t the direction I wanted to take!
Forming a ‘plan A’ and sticking by it even when presented with an appealing plan B, was a really important aspect of my exit from consulting.
“I think the best exercise is to think of a workplace where you thrive and think about what that looks like.”
It’s very tempting when you leave consulting to think that the “best move” is to add another big brand name to your CV, even if it’s “only for a couple of years.” But two or three years is a long time if you’re working in a job where you’re uninspired, working 10+ hours a day, and if you were given a choice, probably isn’t the environment you’d want to be working in.
I’d also say the idea that there is a “perfect” time for leaving consulting is misleading. There’s no such thing. Instead, if you feel that you’ve already picked up 90% of the skills you wanted to get out of consulting, then the remaining 10% usually aren’t worth the additional time it takes to acquire them. You’re possibly better off moving onto the next thing – whatever that might be – and then picking up 90% of a different skill set to go along with what you’ve gained from consulting.
How much of a challenge has it been starting a business and starting a family at the same time?
Certainly one of the things I’ve found is that in terms of managing my time, it’s been more compatible. Don’t get me wrong I’m still working long hours, but I have the ability to block times and really stick to them, e.g. always being at home from 6 pm-9 pm for my children’s dinner and bedtime. The flipside of course is that I do find it much more difficult – if not impossible – to truly switch off – there’s always something on my mind related to the business.
“My advice for people thinking of joining a startup would be… also to look at the founders, what kind of people they are, and what stage of life they’re at.”
I also think there’s an element of fortune that my co-founders are at a similar stage of life, each of us with young children. We’re in the same boat and share the perspective that family time is important. My advice for people thinking of joining a startup would be, of course, to make sure it’s a role and industry that interests you, but also to look at the founders, what kind of people they are, and what stage of life they’re at. Before joining a startup or any small businesses, it’s really important to get a feel for the people and work culture, especially when coming from consulting where this can change from project to project.
Movemeon supports organisations to hire all over the world
Over the last few months, we’ve spoken to a number of start-up leaders about the challenges of running their businesses, and about their career journeys. Below, we’ve collected some of their best tips for current & aspiring startup founders. You can also scroll to the end of this article to read their interviews in full.
1. Ben, MD Europe at Pollen, on the one piece of advice to others looking to start their own business:
Hire good people, trust them and pay them well. You have to remember the human element – let people work (reasonable) hours, treat them well while they are at work, and then let them go home to their real friends and families.
2. Siadhal, Co-Founder & CEO at Metaview, on nailing your product:
Have as many conversations with prospects and customers as possible, to the point that interactions become almost completely predictable.
3. James, Global Head of Marketing at Naked Wines, on smaller companies looking to grow their teams during the pandemic:
Be open to recruiting online. If there’s a business need, move ahead; don’t wait for this to all be over, but do adapt your hiring process.
4. Craig, Commercial Director at Welbeck Health Partners, on building your career:
My old manager always used to draw a circle on a piece of paper to represent the world, and a small dot to represent you – to illustrate the point that whatever is going in is just a tiny piece of the puzzle. There’s more to life out there; don’t take yourself too seriously!
5. Rania, Business Strategist, MD, Founder & Trustee, on starting a business as an ex-consultant:
I’d recommend networking & learning about that ecosystem a lot – there are conferences, incubators, talking to other founders…
6. Freddy, Co-Founder & CEO of Wild Cosmetics on hiring:
You always want to be really busy before you hire. Of course, the challenge then is that you are busy so you want to hire someone quickly – but that’s exactly when you want to take your time.
7. Robert, COO of Techspace, on hiring:
Think about what you need this role to do, what problem it needs to solve now. But then also think about where you need this role to be in 6 months or a year. Especially in fast-growing companies, you might need the first hire to be more senior than the immediate problem suggests.
8. Aude, Co-Founder of Innovafeed, on consultants founding businesses:
Start finding the right people early. It’s so important to get the right people. You need to know what you want (i.e., vision), but the key thing is finding great people to achieve that vision.
Interested in reading more? Take a look at the full interviews below:
Please tell us a bit about your career. I saw that you used to work at Deloitte, so it’d be great to hear how you ended up in consulting, what led you to work at the Dubai World Trade Center and then at the Home Chef as well.
It’s been a long journey. I actually grew up here in Colorado. I left about 18 years ago for college and then grad school and traveling around and ended up doing my Master’s in Arab Studies. After that, I moved out to the Middle East; Egypt, where I was doing some language study and some journalism, amongst other things. While there, I had applied to a job in Dubai in management consulting, with what was Monitor Group at the time – before they were bought by Deloitte.
I did about three years at Monitor Group, working in the standard management consulting way: across regions, on different projects, in the public and private sector… I really enjoyed it! And then they were bought by Deloitte, and I found that to be a natural transition point, so when the opportunity at the Dubai World Trade Centre came up, it just made sense. That was a bit more of a corporate strategy role, specifically focused on running a business as opposed to short consulting projects.
I was at the DWTC for about 3 years, focused on lots of things, everything from corporate strategy (corporate planning, new business development, & optimisation) to real estate – I even opened a restaurant when I was there. At that point I had been in the Middle East for about eight years total, and was ready for a change. I had met my partner out there as well, who’s from Spain, and we were looking to see where we wanted to settle down. We ended up looking at the US, and then decided to go for Chicago, where I had some family. He works for BCG and he got transferred out there, and I ended up at a startup, which is Home Chef.
Home Chef is a meal kit company with similarities to HelloFresh or Blue Apron. With that move, I was looking for more impact, and to be able to develop a broader skillset, and get a bit more scrappy. I was a bit tired of bureaucracy, and looking for a much smaller, nimble startup. When I started, there were 30 people in a room; I loved it! And then, four and a half years later, we sold to Kroger, which is a very large grocery company in the US. We scaled up from being quite small to being much larger over a couple of years, and grew from 30 of us in the corporate office to probably 300 over that same time period. I learned a lot in that growth phase, but I was still looking to get back to my scrappier startup roots, that’s what excited me more.
That’s where I was when you reached out to me about SumUp, and I thought the company sounded really interesting, but I have no finance experience, so they’re not going to want me… and here we are! It worked out very well.
Could you talk a bit about applying for a role during the pandemic? What led you to apply during a difficult time for job changes?
I was very much at the passive job hunting stage. I was actually thinking, next year, I’ll start looking elsewhere; just opening some conversations. I was also thinking of staying in Chicago; I certainly wasn’t planning to move across the US. But then you reached out about SumUp, and all the interviews I had with the team just went very well. I love the people, and the role is very interesting. I was happy to get back to a more international component as well; that was very attractive to me.
Home Chef was great, but it was very Midwest US. So really it was a coming together of fortunate events. If the role had been in rural Kansas or some other part of the US I had no history with, and where I didn’t have family, I probably wouldn’t have jumped at the opportunity. But Colorado was another story. I have history there. I’ve got family there. I’ve got a one-year-old, so I’ve got babysitters built-in! Things just kind of worked out.
And how would you describe the overall experience of looking for a job during the pandemic?
I’ve always found that the best time to look for a job is when you’re already in a job that you’re happy with because it just takes away all the stress of having to put high hopes in all the ones you’re applying for. I think in that sense it was good timing because I could have continued at Home Chef.
Thinking more broadly, I think it was easier to apply during the pandemic. You no longer have to deal with the significant logistics of finding time when someone’s in the office to go visit them. You just schedule the call for when it works for both of you. In a non-pandemic world, I would probably have flown out to Colorado once or twice. Without the need to coordinate with the physical schedules of multiple people, everything could move much faster.
I think, between each interview, it was, three, four days as opposed to three, four weeks while they’re figuring out when this person can meet you in person. So, in some ways, it was actually much easier.
If you had to give any advice to other people who were looking for a role, and feeling the impact of the pandemic, what would your advice be?
Good question. From being on the other side of the market, where I was still actively hiring for roles in Home Chef, I would say that it’s an interesting market right now. I think it leveled out a bit more.Two years ago, for example, we were dying to find good talent and you would have to pay premium dollar. We’ve now seen the opposite; there are just a lot of really talented, good people in the market who are either looking for a new job or out of a job.
I’d actually say it’s a better market. Now, this is not the advice that I’d want to hear, but for the companies, as opposed to the people that are job hunting, there are a lot of solid employees in the market. On the flip side, I think that’s an opportunity for those who are hunting around for jobs where companies are still hiring. Companies are looking for great talent. Companies are looking for people who have solid well-rounded skill sets. I think it actually is a pretty solid time to move companies. Not without its challenges in terms of work from home and distance and everything, but, I think that the demand still seems to be there.
How did you find the experience of starting remotely?
lt was relatively smooth. I think in this case, because of the role they were willing to give me a computer ahead of my contract starting. I was able to do a lot of onboarding and pre-reading ahead of time. I officially started on the 4th January, and I’ve been going to the office twice a week. It’s relatively empty, but just nice to connect.
And on any given day, I’m talking to someone in Berlin, Brazil; all over the world, so we just don’t have that much of this physical need to be in one spot to get work done or to learn something. As a result, SumUp was already better positioned to help onboard new employees remotely. That being said, I think that there definitely will be an advantage of, in a post COVID world, getting people back in the office, collaborating, learning from one another. That’s not going to go away.
Do you have any advice for employers who are looking to do remote onboarding?
Yes, it’s helpful to have clear expectations of the onboarding process. Not from a document perspective, but maybe a list of 30 people I should set 30 minutes with over the next two weeks. Right. It’s just the relationship aspect that you don’t get when you’re working from home as much as you would if you were just in the office, where you’d bump into someone and you’d meet new people.
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